It isn't that you cannot, but that you should not... ....because,
you will simply be feeding a monster.
There are whole industries - not just an industry, but many of them - that go into long and complicated ideas about human personality. Some talk about 'colors reflecting personality types,' others deal with 'data graphics' in order to design branding schemes, others are heavily tied up with academic studies such as Myers-Briggs and Holland Codes (which is a theory about career choice).
Miriam Lancewood - a young Dutch woman who with her English husband live 'wild' in New Zealand, I believe. |
There are 'communication styles,' and there are 'personality tests' - and most of it now has academic approval.
And this is of course, due to big business paying money out to try and grab the holy grail, as it were, of customer and consumer access and capture.
Like I said - I can easily, and I mean easily - force someone to do something they might not have thought they were going to do, or were even likely to do, especially when it comes to money, for one good example.
But when you do that kind of thing what you are effectively doing is throwing that person under a bus they are themselves errant in driving at all in the first place, to say nothing of when they drive it too fast.
If you just apply cold objective common sense to the 'labels' that are attached to ideas like 'color wheels and personality' what you could as easily conclude as you might 'conclude' that the words do apply appropriately - is that they apply anyway because they would do so at various intervals no matter what. The most self-involved, introvert person could in particular given circumstances, be a lion! ...As always happens in hot wars; it's a maxim. The loudest, noisiest, most self-aggrandizing bully is always the biggest coward when confronted with an obviously more serious and real threat than they themselves are at the given moment of challenge.
'Red' is aggressive - but why isn't 'pink' aggressive? Well, it actually is!
It's all about how you think about something.
Miriam is 'cute' but she is also potentially deadly dangerous and obsessional. |
So, if I go back to the 'white room,' scanning is looking at what someone is generally, or most automatically 'defaulting' to, when they are looking at anything.
Now I'm not going any further, or more deeply into this here because it becomes stupendously significant, beyond this point; as soon as you 'see' what the system or structure is, it changes a lot of things - none of which I want to be responsible for changing. I am not a prophet to Mankind - I am the undertaker to it.
I'm not saving anyone.
If you're smart enough you'll be quite able to save yourself anyway.
But I will tell you about a problem that is already here, not just 'coming up soon.'
The Plague of Sheroe (627 AD - 628 AD) killed off fifty per cent of the population of the Western Sassanid Empire. But... ...or maybe and - it killed the ruler.
The Sassanids self-destructed virtually immediately thereafter and the mercenary or 'client' armies they had been previously arming with expensive weaponry, jumped into the power vacuum, rampaging everywhere and looting and vandalizing everything from which the developed world never recovered not for a thousand years.
How to be wild and deadly dangerous in the city... |
The whole of Egypt was plundered and wrecked, Ctesiphon and Baghdad too, and the need for further, in fact continuous plunder to feed this hungry and not self-sufficient monster saw the expansion of it all the way to Spain.
On-line, there are hundreds, no, thousands and thousands, of pages of details about 'strategy' and 'battles' and even named individuals and places - none of whom or which ever existed in history.
All of these on-line reference sources will have a little phrase tucked in there somewhere, that says: 'these details are principally from Islamic tradition.'
In fact, that 'Islamic tradition' comes from only one man, ibn Hisham, who wrote a recension (supposedly of an earlier text, not one single copy of which exists at all, nor even any fragments therefrom...) more than two hundred years after the various 'historical' episodes themselves, for which there is in fact, no history at all; as in 'absolutely zero.'
The 'Pact of Umar' (copy document) is an obvious forgery made hundreds of years after it was meant to have been made/signed, and there are no indications by anyone at the time that such a thing occurred.
Plagues - real ones - have the uniform habit of killing off the leaders, and altering the political and economic prevailing structures and doing so with effects felt for hundreds of years.
Conspiracy theorists could say, oh this one we're having is not a real plague - but yes it is and I'll tell you why: it has already altered the economic and social/political structures that had been in force.
Animal in the wild... |
Superficially, it would seem that because of modern medicine and technology, leaderships are capable of protecting themselves relatively successfully, in the face of a global viral pandemic.
Scenario modelers however, using sophisticated 'data-graphics' will tell you a different story.
They will say, that some critical structural girders underpinning why those leaders even existed in the first place have already been removed - weakening the whole system.
Buildings exhibit lots of problems over some time before they just completely collapse altogether under their own weight, if they are no longer structurally sound.
Isn't that right?
Eric Weinstein, who raised the basic alarm about the media's treatment of the Epstein business, shone a light onto a basic fact regarding the whole 'Epstein model' - which is that little did we the ordinary public know or realize, that arms of government, the powers of the state, were being used to compromise people, and especially public figures, for a long time.
Well what you also don't know is that right now, there are small groups of people who are going to take politicians, judges, lawyers, 'activists,' bankers, police, 'secret police' out under the cover of darkness - and skin them alive and present the hides to you. (I should say 'in ways that you might not expect could happen' - you know, so that the cops don't come knocking on my door).
You think not?
Are you betting? And do you have enough money to lose?
POSTSCRIPT. I just had this video come through my YT feed for no reason that I can think of - it was just in with a bunch of other general TV interviews, but this one was one of Caitlyn Jenner, in which Jenner mentions that there was one single idea going through the head for forty years, every single day, all the time. So, that's a good example of what I'm talking about. Stick such a person into a totally somnolent state, shutting down their incessant verbal explaining about things they are actually lying to you about - and you can use EMF scanning technology and 'read' the neural network pathways that are heavily used. ...I can explain to Jenner what was going on - and what still is going on - but I don't need to do that; no one has asked me to, and I might not anyway. The fact that a human being is mys-organized inside is no crime of that person's. Super advanced cultures and species are so far above what the human paradigm is though, that 'agency' on behalf of the flawed human being is nonsensical as an absolute principal. Humans are mediocre things at best as an 'average' of the whole group (of 'humans'). Jenner's conclusions appears to be something along the lines of 'being true to oneself...' What does that even mean though? 'Oneself?' Oneself who? He wasn't 'himself' the whole of his life but even in this interview he openly claims to have been 'successful' in having raised his kids and in acquitting a range of other... ...social expectations. ...It's totally possible to make someone happy, though, just by reading what their inward neural inclinations are all the time - and the mistake people make is in thinking this is from something outside of themselves, something put upon them; in fact it's who they are. The only choice you get when you die, is - do you want to be who you claimed to have been? LOL
Davin R, Hawkins says that; I'm just repeating it. I don't know anything.
To this point your focus on "shared agency" has been very much along the lines of "sharing" - so among sentient beings. Given that the brain is this thing that has this organization and structure, how could there be a meaningful cross-species sharing of mind?
ReplyDeleteYou have also spoken of "intellectually narrow spaces." When asked "how can some words written on a stone turn into to some kind of portal-like alien technological thingy?" but you have not been willing to go for the "well, because of the intellectually narrow space..." explanation, because that would be CRAZY talk. I don't mind the crazy talk, because I live in the land where the temperature is close to 120 degrees on alternate Mondays.
When I tell you that agency can be "shared" I'm not talking about a special state of mind. I'm telling you that agency in its "narrow conception" is a real thing that exists in the world, like popcorn, and that it is by its nature "shared" because it can not be any other way.
'Given that the brain is this thing that has this organization and structure...' ...well but you humans do not have a properly organized brain at all! LOL The human brain could be an organized thing with an optimally functioning structure, except it mostly isn't.
ReplyDelete'Words on a stone' cannot turn into a portal, or portal-like alien technology. What words? Which stone?? You don't mean that stupid Hollywood 'God gives stone tablets to Moses @Mount Sinai,' do you? People still argue over where 'Mount Sinai' really even is!!
'Agency by its nature is a shared thing?????????' Where? Tell us more about that - how that all happens. EG - 'I give you the power/right/decision'to do XYZ?' I give you, Demi Lovato, the power to kill Harvey Weinstein and that's like 'popcorn,' is it? 'Popcorn' would work as a metaphor for agency if the outcomes are fairly soft, benign - not if they are horrendously violent and extreme in nature, potentially. If a Tic Tac goes and pulls down all the security of a nuclear weapons facility, while Russia or NoKo(!) is launching an attack, that is not a 'popcorn' matter.
You're talking about agency in relation to advanced intelligent beings who can live five thousand years that seems like three months to them. You have NOTHING to give. As far as they look at that kind of proposition. Why are you wasting time over a pointless exercise like that? You're not ever going to 'convince' them - people have already tried like that. Your present standpoint is to do with YOUR own existential mindset, not the logic of the whole thing as it stands in front of us today. You WANT to have agency. You WANT to WIN the agency tussle! Give ME, I WANT. Let me HAVE. ...Is NOT going to happen though. Start from there. Then what next?
DeleteThe whole thrust of the last few posts here have been that human beings spend BILLIONS on utterly false, flawed but vastly detailed conceptions about human personality. People do not have the capacity to shift ground within their own mindsets. But what's the end result going to be, WHEN AND IF WE ENCOUNTER A SUPERIOR SPECIES?
Who beat the Go champion when he lost to Alpha Go?
DeleteIt's what they straight up say to Christopher Walken in "Communion:" You are the dream, I am the dreamer. I mean that was the response when Walken said to them "let me HAVE, I WANT..."
Here's another theory about the white room. Maybe it's not true, but it is a theory. In our "baseline state" we are enormous behives of emotion, and it drives them loony. So they calm us down so they can stand to be near enough to do what they wish to do without losing their minds.
Or like this: they need us to be calm because it hurts their ears to hang with us naturally.
DeleteSo more. I don't want "to have" agency, or win the tussle. I want to detach myself momentarily from the way I use "agency" to order my understanding of myself and of things, long enough to notice other things that I don't normally notice. To share a state of mind with another person involves noticing how they are as a beehive of emotional activity, not to experience those emotions in all the gory detail as they occur to them.
DeleteI also like your point about tic-tacs and nuclear security, because of the people who've been selling "mutually assured destruction" as a security measure, are now the same people who are saying "tic tacs are real and we have no defense if they are controlled by hostile entity"
DeleteSo I guess the cold war was just an excuse to do a lot of weapons sales?
Oh boy. Wikipedia is really helpful, I am super grateful for that stuff. So from "Communion" and Whitley Strieber you get to discover George Gurdjieff.
DeleteI kind of virtually totally agree with all of that last set of comments - yeah I think it might be (also) true that humans have very noisy minds!! LOL
ReplyDeleteBelieve me, I am actually TRYING VERY HARD to state as helpfully as possible, some of the insights that are available, about the 'mind' structures... BUT WITHOUT just blatantly tearing down everything that 'we think we know' up till now and becoming some kind of 'alternative paradigm' in opposition to standard academia. I think it's important for people to 'find' the way, or their way, by themselves in this situation without being 'spoon-fed' with a pre-set 'position.' Because when you do that, many people automatically look for the 'OP-position' by habit as much as anything else.
Your last comment there is as interesting/important as all the other 'personality/inner person' subject matter - I actually don't think these guys really are saying 'we have no defense.' That idea is being canvassed, yes, but no one in leadership is genuinely saying or feeling urgently that serious about it as a 'crisis/risk.' To me, the reality of actual ET Aliens is there, is true, but it stands almost totally outside of the run of things for humanity. More in a second...
Not that your point re 'weapons selling' is invalid in the slightest!
ReplyDeleteYes I'm the person who roots for the paradigm shift without thinking carefully about the broad implications. So you're right to resist. I'm aware that glitches in the personal sense of agency are considered to be a symptom of mental illness, and I'm being fairly irresponsible in not considering that before posting.
ReplyDeleteAnswers to questions you've posed here are in this book, "The Master of the Key." Whether they are true answers is another question
ReplyDeleteI'm going to offer a more detailed alternative concept about "agency" which I think will help me understand the world as it becomes more AI-driven, or something. I'm doing this because I'm one of those people who has had "things taken off" him. Several times in fact. It's fascinating to be the person who loses.
ReplyDeleteThe focus should be on networks. Edges can be thought of as "influence" and nodes become "persons." Agency is not influence, it is a field which induces flow within the network. The person notices this field, but when they notice it from the limited perspective as nodes within the network what they are left with is the sense that they are themselves "in control." The person in this sense is in fact an illusion created "in the nodes" as influence changes and "flow" of some kind is induced.
Now the alarm gets sounded, because "well what is responsibility then?" A lot of reasonable people are going to shred this idea. I'm fine with that. It's probably being discussed by more competent thinker types already.